On Lost'Her she can help make MK9 Kits and Purple Augment 66 for our NOR guild mates.
This is my first MMO and I am glad to have found a fun and happy online family to game with.
All I ask is for material to help me make your MK-9 and Blue or Purple Augments.
Mk-9 uses 10 Augment Slot Kits
Purple Augment 66 uses 4 Thermal Regulators
I have all the other material and I send my Toons out nightly Savaging and Slicing.
It is important info that Intisar was saying about Augmenting each of your slots.
I was Clan Leader for 9 years and understand you have times where you have to clear things up. It is important to keep it FUN.
We all work to keep a roof over our heads and I count the minutes to when I turn on that gaming PC and start enjoying fun with our Norbies
Lord knows I may be one of the oldest here but I am a noob and dam proud of it.
Although as you all know me as the probably 'only' RP guy on TOR, at least in our guild. I did not start out that way, I blame Drem and Sky just for GP.
I come from a Hard-core raid background. This is my 5th MMo and I didn't even start RP until I got to TOR. That being said, I would like to add my thoughts on the matter.
Firstly, we have to ask ourselves a serious question. What is the goal here?
If: The goal is to simply raid and have fun being together, then I agree with the statement that we can bring all commers. However, we do have a progression group and some people want to get in it. So, it is in all of our best interest to treat even the lower level raids and raiders as if we are ALL moving toward that progression group. If not, when they run into trouble or need a filler, no one is prepared. Plus, it gets all of us better geared to take on further content.
Secondly, Raiding takes commitment.
That being said, you should all understand that there are personal requirements that must be met in and above those of just the minimum raid level and gear requirements.
- Personal Study: Do yourselves a favor, get on Youtube or another site to review the upcoming fights in the raid. Nothing it better than live experience, but if you have an idea about whats coming it makes more sense once you are in the actual raid as to what your role and actions should be.
- Personal Equipment: Have your own supply of Adrenals and Stims. Now I know our fellow members are generous and I love that about NOR, lord knows there are sooooo many guilds out there that are not as generous, but by having your own stuff you display a commitment to the raid as well as your toon.
- Personal achievement: Level your toon, do dailies, sell cartel stuff...do whatever you have to do to get the gear necessary to get ready to raid. Make sure your toon is level and gear equivalent to whatever it is your doing and a lot of this has to do with your own personal achievement time. Now, that doesn't mean that our leadership cant give us a 'bye' when they have overpowered toons that can carry us, I encourage that, in fact I am waiting on Sky to destroy HM so I can get in, but again it displays your own personal commitment to the group as well your investment in your toon.
- PvP: This is highly debatable, but I am going to throw this out there just based on my personal experience in this game. For instance, there are moves and actions my toons were capable of doing that I didn't even know about until I did PvP and had to use them. Before you flame me, be aware that I have 11 55's so I am spread out over all of them. By doing PvP I really had to learn my class. That combined with talking with our guild class experts, I feel I have improved 10 fold.
Where am I coming from:
After being the Raid Leader myself and being the lowly member I can defiantly see where the frustration is setting in. But, I am good with whatever the guild wants to do.
I remember during the Midsummer Fire Festival in WoW, during a daily run to kill Ahune in Coilfang, I was with a group where the healer and other two DPS kept dying to the glacial spikes. After the fifth wipe, The tank took the time to explain this mechanic, very nicely and politely, and she asked them if they saw the reticules on the ground that told where the spikes would erupt. They admitted they couldn't, and it could be a feature of their hardware limits or the game settings they had to make to suit their playing style. The tank explained that if they can't see the reticules and can't avoid the spikes, they're just not going to live long enough to finish the encounter, and can't do the fight. They thanked her for being so nice about it and left the group; the tank re-queued, three new people popped in and we finished easily.
I also remember people screaming and typing in all capital letters with multiple emphasis marks of all kinds, about how they were the only person in the party who even knew which way was up. I remember shrieks about how this person or that person was performing at a lesser degree than the screamers were allegedly performing an entire expansion ago. I remember carrying on to such a degree that I thought sheer rage should have driven them to a fatal aneurysm or heart attack. I'd be honestly shocked if those people were alive IRL today. There's no way in hell my body could tolerate driving my stress level that high.
What's my point, you might ask?
I understand that bosses have enrage timers, and if the boss just isn't losing health fast enough, it's going to hit that timer and wipe the raid. Period. There's SOME point at which someone who just isn't hitting hard enough, will not be able to kill the boss, no matter what. But I'm starting to sense a tone of hostility toward fellow guild members that sounds dangerously like the "fail everyone except me" rant-fests that I heard in 99.999999 (more 9's ad nauseum) % of all PUGS I've ever been in.
So, I know that some operations are gear checks, and sometimes you will master the mechanics but be unable to beat the rage timer because of lack of all the right gear pieces and parts. But be careful how you address it. I just can't see anything respectful about "Seriously? SERIOUSLY???" and "Really? REALLY???" I always react badly to it. There can be a fine line between "Please, let's all take some time to upgrade ALL our parts to the minimum needed" and "Dammit I'm tired of all of u sucking so bad because u don't want 2 work 4 ur win!!!" I've seen raid teams break up because of disagreements over rules, gear, and loot distribution. I've seen an entire guild or two disband over it. I've even seen a close personal friendship break up and turn into the saddest long-term grudge match you'll never see on Jerry Springer, but probably should. We need to perch up on that middle ground. Please don't be too quick to break out, "oh that won't happen to US," because those ex-guildmates and those two ex-friends undoubtedly felt the exact same way.
Right, so here is the issue summed up with a nice pretty bow. We have requirements for runs posted on our forums for a reason... people can't seem to read and/or follow those guidelines with regards to the required gear. That's pretty much the long and the short of it, if you can't devote the time to hitting the requirements for gear set forth by the DMG, then don't bother signing up to go... period. I get that this isn't a hardcore guild, I get that people have real lives... we all do. I, personally, will not help anyone who can't be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves... I'm not going to work twice as hard, so that you (whomever) can be lazy and make excuses. Does that make me an elitist prick... perhaps... but I have no delusions that I'm anything but that. If the TOR branch wants to raid, I'm all for that... but catering to lazy folks who can't be bothered to put the time in to work towards being raid ready, is a pointless waste of time.
Addendum: If I may...I have two quick points I would like to make, not to subtract to what my illustrious colleagues have already stated, but merely to add to what I myself have already posted.
Firstly, Computer programs and MMOs in particular are all based on mathematics. I am not a math wizard, so rely on smarter people than myself to help get my toon 'mathematically' correct. IE...The Gear level also IE...the smarter people like Skyleth, Torn, Zyera and Malykk (Who have studied the math involved with these encounters in relation to the math required on our toons). Since these games are based on math, we as a group must meet or exceed the game's baseline for a certain encounter. If all of the members of that party do not meet or exceed the encounter's baseline mathematical calculations then the party will fail to defeat said encounter.
Secondly, the level or what I refer to as 'common courtesy' in Raiding. What I referred to in my last post was a level of personal preparedness that all must come to the table with.
-Encounters involving current content are almost always geared toward the more 'mathematically' inclined players who have mastered the last content and are now tackling the current content in order to progress.
-As content evolves, that current content will be downgraded in order to make it more available to those gamers who do not make the mathematical grade to tackle content that may be too difficult for them at the current time.
-The level of 'personal preparedness' I was referring to will increase your numbers and by nature of that increase your chances of defeating that encounter. When the content is downgraded, those numbers are no longer required.
-Finally, there is little to no comparison in doing Flashpoints or as we know them in WoW "HM Dungeons"...to doing a Raid or OP. The level of preparation and time investment is greater for a raid than it is for simply que'ing up for an instant Dungeon. There is NO such thing as instant gratification for doing a Raid, at least not for current content raids. It is a group of people, committed to each other, cognizant that each others time is valuable and willing to appreciate that that person's time is just as valuable as the person to their left and right....side by side.
Thank you for allowing me to add to what has already been said.
So I've been watching this thread closely since last Wednesday when it first was posted. At first I had mixed feelings about the tone that each individual was posting, and after several days I really feel the need to put down my thoughts on this discussion, not the Branch's decision on gear and raiding.
Everyone here is NOR. Even the recruits who have been here a while, but haven't quite made it to Squire yet, are in the guild. To me that means everyone should act like a member of NOR. Lots of people frequent the forums, whether they are here to read up on what everyone has been up to, share some jokes, or sign up for a guild event. I personally have the Portal bookmarked so I can circumvent the main page all together, it's just easier for me. However, that got me thinking... how many people also do this? How many of us have actually sat down and looked at our main page?
Right there in beautiful, I'm gonna call it blue-silver, are our basic principles. "Have fun!
Help each other.
Cooperate as a team.
Service to the greater good, group and guild.
Let's break these down according to this thread specifically...
Have fun!
First let's me point out that this is the only one that has an exclamation point. Was this on purpose? Who knows, but I like to think so though because we're all here to play a/some video games with others. More specifically we're here to play games with others we have come to call close friends, if not family.
Help each other.
While many people have replied to this thread about what "unnamed individuals" can do for whatever seems to be the conflict here, there has been a much greater amount (in my eyes) of people pointing the finger at a group of "unnamed individuals". How is it helping anyone if you are standing in a corner throwing a tantrum, while everyone looks at you?
Cooperate as a team.
In order to cooperate as a team, the team has to be built, reinforced, and cared for by the team. Instead of breaking off a weak link, why not make that weak link stronger, as a team?
Service to the greater good, group and guild.
My personal favorite. This doesn't mean that once you log on all your time should immediately be devoted to the lowest level and/or worst geared played currently online. What this does mean is everything you do reflects on NOR, as a whole. When you do or say something, you're seen and heard. First by your fellow members. I'll be the first to admit that after I read the first couple days' worth of posts I told myself, "Man, I'm glad I don't play SW:TOR anymore." That scared the HELL out of me. Not sure how many of you know this, and I really hate to toot my own horn, but SW:TOR was my baby. There are a couple officers who have told me there might not be a SW:TOR branch for NOR today if I hadn't helped it all come together. Greater good people. If you make an investment into the guild, you will see returns. I promise.
That's my "2 cents". Take it for what you will. I've been in NOR for a long time, comparatively to how long I've been alive, so I like to think I know a thing or two. But , hey if you think I'm just blowing steam out my ass good for you. I'll just sit in my balcony seat and watch what happens next.
Ojike *NOR/GR "For, as a wise man once said: An error doesn't become a mistake, until you refuse to correct it."
-John F Kennedy
And while I would like to point out that the SWTOR branch of NOR has an extremely robust program for gearing players who may not be ready for current content, I will point out again that the path toward that goal also requires much work by the individual player.
Additionally, I will reserve further comment until our raid leader, which has reserved his spot below mine...has spoken.
-RT
Last edited by GuardianElite on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've read this thread a bazillion times and just finished reading it again. I just want to thank everyone who I have talked to in-game, all the members from other branches, all of the officers/DMG members/advisors who are taking part in the e-mail chain and this thread and say that everyone has had great points and wonderful input. Some of it is based on misconceptions that this thread started but your input is very valuable in my opinion and I want to thank all of you for voicing it. Communication is critical in every facet of life and gaming. The way I see these issues can be explained in the following example: Tundrra and I get into some pretty serious rows sometimes over e-mail because we see things differently. I harbor zero dislike for him though and have nothing but respect for the huge amount of work he has put into NOR. Tons of our recent successes are built off the foundation he and the other original leadership of the branch set for us. Each time we disagree he adds a perspective that I need to pause and make sure I have taken into account. This keeps me from putting my blinders on. This reminds me, whether I need it or not, what NOR is about. This is repeated for all of us in this thread and others. This is very healthy. As long as we make sure we take something positive away from it then these conversations are what make this branch so successful.
I am not going to address everything in this thread because I don't have the time, and others have highlighted much of what I would have said anyway. Instead, I intend to give some perspective to everyone.
Now that we have that out of the way, lets go into some simple math so that people outside of the branch get the whole picture of what goes on with the time we all spend in game. This should clear up some pretty heavy misconceptions and assumptions that are made by people who posted but do not play the game.
Remember, this whole thread is talking about Ops. Several posters in this thread have made the assumption that ops are what we do primarily. This is horribly false.
If you don't like math, sorry.
So the guild has 3 sanctioned events per week. 1 HM night, 1 Imp night, 1 16m SM night. Each is two to two and a half hours long. We'll go on the high end just to close the loop. 7 1/2 hours a week can be spent in ops with the guild if you are fully geared on both sides and you sign up in time.
168 hours in a week. The average adult with kids and a job sleeps for 7.7 hours a day and works for 8.8. This varies of course but it is good enough to paint the baseline.
That brings hours down for whatever activities you want to take part in after work and sleep to 52.5. Factor in eating which is 1.1 then we are down to 51.4. Caring for others (kids) -1.2 = 50.2
Long story short, at the end of the day the average person with a family 24-55ish years of age has 5.2 hours of free time per day to do whatever you want. That is 36.4 hours of free time per week assuming you work seven days a week. If you do not, free weekends create a buffer for those who work longer hours during the week.
The average member of Nor participates in one raid per week. So 2.5 hours per week. That means that of the 36.4 hours available to do whatever they want, ops take up 6.8% of their free time.
If you make every event, including my progression night, you spend 10 hours in ops per week. So 27% of your free time.
Of the sanctioned guild events that run every week, only one night has heavy gear reqs, and even then there is a separate group for those who want to do SM. There is no exclusion ANYWHERE except in the places where we MUST in order to even have a chance at being successful. As RT said, it's math yo. If you include that the one HM night has two groups running then a measly 25% of ops time is reserved for HM geared players.
If you honestly believe the majority of active people are playing only 2.5 hours a week that is just silly. Some certainly do, but those that play infrequently are not what any of this thread is about.
What's the point? The point is that this thread is about an extremely small portion of the time we spend in SWOTR and probably the most infrequent activity we participate in, in SWTOR. People are extrapolating that this is WHAT THE GUILD IS ABOUT AND WE ARE HARDCORE AND YELLING AND SCREAMING AND OTHER LOUD NOISES.
That is simply not true. Sorry to ruin your come to Jesus speeches.
The intent of this thread from what I can tell, regardless of how you personally feel about it, is to identify that we have people not following the rules that allow us to be successful. Because we do ops so infrequently, when the time comes for an ops night everyone wants to get in on it because it only happens a few times a week, and maybe only one or two nights mesh with people's schedules. No one wants to look forward to something all week and then fail, not because you did it wrong, but because someone was inconsiderate and did not follow the rules that have been posted for almost a year now.
Additionally, as RT mentioned, we have an extremely robust "gear everyone up" program in place. Part of the reason we keep running the things we run is to ensure we are providing the basic tools to people if they should aspire to do some HM stuff with the guild. If we did not do that then sure, I can see some points being valid. At this point I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in the guild, who EVER comes to ops, who does not have at least a two-set bonus. If they do not either they were extremely unlucky (which will likely be remedied in like....a week) or they didn't roll on what they should have rolled on. Both are easily fixable and we make a POINT to help people get ready.
One of the additional goals that isn't in this thread is that we are working towards starting some 16m HMs to include more of the guild in the current content for those who are interested. People who come to ops know this, hence why the majority of "puppy dog and unicorn" posts are from people who do not come to these functions. You simply do not understand what is going on whereas the majority of people do. This is not a ding, it is simple fact. I have no idea what goes on in any other branch. I have no problem with admitting that, you shouldn't either.
But at the end of the day, the clincher is this. The MAJORITY of time we spend in SWTOR we are grouping with each other, crafting for each other, stocking the guildbank for up and comers and alts, running impromptu classic ops for people who want some comms and have never had the chance to do that content before, grouping with new players on our own alts, et cetera. I can't even tell you how many Mass manipulation generators the "elitist group" who is taking crap right now, has donated to whomever. Millions and millions and millions of credits have been invested in the guild and other people's success by the group who is slowly being villanized by those with no perspective, just going off a post in the forums.
"Have fun! - we do
Help each other. -we do
Cooperate as a team. -we do (have you not looked at the raid journal lately?) What weak link has ever been broken off? Are you serious? Ask Aly and Torn about how difficult it was to break into the HM group due to "cliques". Pretty sure they will tell you that the second they met the reqs they were more than welcome. We bring ERRRRRRBODY on 16m raids no matter gear level. As a matter of fact some people in this very thread have declined several invitations for whatever reason. But yea sure, we are dropping the dead weight like its hot right? Haha
Service to the greater good, group and guild. - see above.
Additionally if you read any of my other posts I'm pretty sure I have already referenced those as the guiding principles.
As far as your post Oj, I think I have addressed at least a few points you brought up in my ramble, hopefully it sheds a little light on the reality as opposed to the sensationalism. Unfortunately, your toot was noted and it did not contribute anything other than the toot I am afraid =D. Its ok, everyone likes and deserves props for their hard work and your hard work and dedication, just like Las and Tundrra's, is very much appreciated.
At the end of the day everything is fine. Venting frustration keeps things from imploding. This thread identified a weakness in our gear checking and likely even in our practice of pointing people to the boards to read up on how to gear and what they need for ops. I think we can take the positive from it and come out even better. Sometimes you just need a reality check to tighten up your shot group. This is ours. Let it serve its purpose.
Now I'm almost late for a meeting. Sonofa...
Last edited by Skyleth on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:12 am, edited 6 times in total.
