Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

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Skyleth
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Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Skyleth »

The proper use of aggro drops and taunts is essential particularly in the new ops on HM. We have had some issues so this is my attempt to clear some things up both for our veterans as well as for our up and comers or new players. However, in order to use them correctly one must understand how they work.

First, straight from the devs :
BlackMink: Could you please explain SWTOR's threat mechanics? What exactly do the de-taunt abilities do, and how exactly is threat generated? Is threat directly related point for point to the damage you do, or does each individual ability generate a pre-set amount of threat?

Cameron Winston (Combat Designer): Threat is calculated based on damage done, plus or minus certain modifiers, with one damage translating directly into one point of threat. These modifiers are always called out in the abilities which adjust them. For example, Soresu Form increases your threat generation globally, while Crushing Blow or Hilt Strike specifically generates extra bonus threat when activated.

De-taunt abilities reduce your threat level by a flat percentage of its current value. Healing generates less threat than damage and is split evenly among all enemies you are currently fighting.
Additionally DPS only generate threat at a 1:1 ratio per damage done, healers generate aggro evenly among all mobs present per point of healing done. So their threat = Heals/#mobs

In order to "pull aggro" if you are standing more than 4 meters away from the mob you must generate 130% of the tank's (or whoever the mob is attacking) threat. In order to "pull aggro" if you are closer than 4 meters you must do the same except only for 110%.


Taunts
Both single target and area of effect taunts work the same way. They are a threat multiplier essentially. You are granted all the threat of the person at the top of the list plus 10% when within 4m of the target and plus 30% when at maximum melee range or further. It also locks the target on you for 6 seconds regardless of threat. Threat generating abilities (abilities that "generate a high amount of threat") give a point for point threat per damage plus they have a 50% multiplier built in. Additionally tanks generate +50% while in tank stance so 1.5*1.5=225% of damage done as threat when using those special abilities.

Aggro Drops
All aggro drops work the same in that they all drop a % of aggro off. Some are more effective than others. However, since they drop a % and not a flat numerical value they are of no use at the beginning of a fight. When in an operation all dps should be using threat drops on cooldown no matter what, unless the fight warrants doing otherwise.

Practical Application and examples
What does this mean? It means the following:

- After the first minute or two of a fight a tank can literally keep aggro by taunting at maximum melee range every cooldown without attacking. This is especially true if the first taunt comes after the dps unload their opening burn and follow with an aggro drop after the taunt. DPS will essentially never be able to accumulate enough threat ever to come close to pulling of the tank for the rest of the fight. Why is this? Because you build additional threat by taunting not only off of other people but also off of yourself. This means that if the above scenario is done correctly the tank can continue to build aggro without even attacking. With attacking his/her threat would be untouchable. This needs to come with the disclaimer that unless you have another taunt available and someone isn't playing by the rules and/or there is a threat wipe mechanic taunt cannot be spammed. This is only viable in certain situations.

- Tanks standing at maximum melee range while taunting = generating the maximum threat per taunt

- DPS standing at maximum melee range = maximum threat threshold before aggro is pulled

- Using aggro drops after the opening salvo and taunt for dps and on every cooldown thereafter = no aggro problems (some exceptions, but this is a pretty hard rule)

- Rotating taunts with another tank builds massive threat

- Using the following order = no aggro lost off of tanks ever for a single target operation boss: Tank in /w normal attacks (no taunt) -> Dps in after 2-3 seconds, initial burn -> allow 3-5 seconds for burn, taunt -> rotate taunts with other tank while dps uses aggro drops on cooldown -> never lose aggro because is it impossible for dps or heals to generate enough aggro to pull again if done correctly. Guards fix anything wonky.

Example: Nefra
Note: Nefra turning to allow a "burn and pullback" by the tanks is extremely undesirable due to frontal AE.
-> Tanks in together use highest damage attacks to open in the first 2-3 seconds -> first tank AE taunts to top potential healer buildup -> more high damage attacks in the 4th and 5th seconds -> second tank AE taunt -> dps in full burn -> 3-4 seconds into burn first tank uses single target -> burn continues and 3-4 seconds later second tank burns single target and notifies the raid -> everyone aggro drops = Nefra never turns.


Will add stuff as I think of it. Just wanted to get this out there for people to read.
Last edited by Skyleth on Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Zyera »

Thanks for posting this! :D
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by HollyCNY »

Sky, are there any places outside of personal starships that include training dummies? I have a global training dummy unlock for all my toons' ships, but anyone coming aboard my ship won't be able to see or interact with me, nor vice versa. If there's any other place, like on the fleet or somewhere, where two people can work in tandem training on dummies, then I'd like to arrange to meet with you to practice this mechanic. I understand your instructions, but of course, as we all know, there's a huge difference between reading and doing, which is why I always get nervous when someone goes, "Does everyone KNOW this fight?" and I'll have studied it, but never DONE it before.

If there's a place where two people can practice together on a training dummy, then I'd like to be able to meet there to practice, first with Gwendarr, then maybe with Raishall, my IA sniper.
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Laria »

There are training dummies on one of the ships in the fleet, forget which one but they aren't hard to find if you poke around on the ships a bit.
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Skyleth »

There are training dummies on the Gav Daragon bridge. Additionally you CAN have someone come into your ship and hit the same dummy, I have done it many times.

As far as practicing the mechanic, I will have to check and see how the dummies behave regarding aggro. I suspect that you are correct and you may be able to practice on them as they are essentially a mob with some restrictions. Will need to make sure though, gonna ask around to see if anyone knows or if i need to do it myself. If they do follow the normal rules, then yes, I can help.
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Valikk »

I like the idea of this, and can definitely see this helping quite a bit.

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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Gilen »

Well that gives me a great amount of info I had not considered before especially on Aggro drops. I have never used them and likely is why I have had problems with my DPS folks. Thank you for the post Sky.
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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Alystri »

I just read this....so to clarify, after my initial burn, I should use my aggro drop, force camoflauge? Thereafter, I should use it each time it is off of cool down? This is only referring to boss fights or all fights?

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Re: Proper use of Aggro drops and Taunts

Post by Intisar »

Force Camouflage doesn't trigger the global cool down so it can be used without interfering with your normal dps rotation, so feel free to use it whenever it's available. That said, the ability also gives you a speed boost and some damage reduction, so it's useful for more than reducing threat. On Nefra, the first boss in Dread Fortress, you should be able to alternate Force Camouflage and Rebuke on each application of the DOT she applies to reduce the damage you take. On Operator in Terror From Beyond you can use Camouflage to cross the room faster after killing the first data cube. It's a pretty powerful ability with a short cool down, so it never hurts to pop it.
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